172: Distributed Energy: The Inside Track on a Trillion Dollar Juggernaut

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Contact info:Bill Nussey

Career Tech CEO, Clean Energy Disruptor, Author

www.FreeingEnergy.com

Bill.Nussey@FreeingEnergy.com

Bio:

Bill Nussey is a career tech CEO with three successful exits, including an IPO. He has also been an investor with the venture capital firm Greylock. After IBM acquired his marketing tech company Silver pop in 2014, he was promoted to IBM’s VP of Corporate Strategy, helping the CEO and SVPs set the company’s overall strategy. As a CEO, his companies have raised more than $400 million, created thousands of jobs and billions in shareholder value.

In 2016, he left IBM to create the Freeing Energy Project. It began with his 2017 Ted talk then grew into 100+ articles and, most recently, the #1 ranked renewable energy podcast, The Freeing Energy podcast. On December 7 2021, all this came together in a book called Freeing Energy: How Innovators Are Using Local-scale Solar and Batteries To Disrupt the Global Energy Industry From the Outside In. It is the result of 320 interviews across several continents.

This is profit from the inside with Joel Block insights to give your business the inside track. And now here's your host, Joel Block. What's the trillion dollar idea that so few people see coming, but yet it will revolutionize every business and every consumer experience? How will the opportunities emerge? How will the new kids on the block displace the hundred year old monopolies that currently dominate the space? To answer those questions and more, Bill Nuscy, Bill, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me, Joel. It's great to be here. Exciting topics. Exciting topics. This is, uh, this is a cool one. I mean in the pre show stuff that we're doing. I'm excited about this discussion. So what is the what's the trillion dollar industry? What are we what are we talking about? If you look at all energy like oil, gas, electricity power companies, it's about six trillion dollars a year across the world, which makes it arguably the largest industry on the planet earth. Uh, and it's always been the province of these giant industrial policy heavy billion dollar businesses like oil and gas, particularly electric utilities. And the crazy thing nobody sees coming is that these small scale systems like rooftop solar, microgrids, solar and battery coupled with electric vehicles. This is actually gonna due to the electricity industry and the overall energy industry exactly what pcs and smartphones did the main frames. Exact same impact. It's going to revolutionize it, turn it upside down and create incredible opportunities for entrepreneurs and innovators. So are you talking about decentralizing? Is that? Is that kind of what happens? Exactly? The break up the infrastructure, decentralize it so that a few giant players don't control this anymore. Absolutely, it's a it's the same way. If you go to if you want, if you log down to a computer system in the cloud, fifty years ago you're hitting a main for...

...you log into the computer system in the cloud today you're hitting millions and millions of small computers run by Google, and that's accessed by a computer in your lap, on your laptop or in your pocket with your smartphone. That same kind of technology disruption that caused us to move from big old fashioned centralized systems two small, quick, cheap systems is taking place in energy. Thing is nobody sees it coming because they haven't done the numbers. So so these electric cars, I mean they're ultimately going to make that big of a difference at some point sometime in the near future. It's going to be absolutely dramatic, you know, and a lot of people come at this from the climate change point of view, and that's that's a very important point of view. But to me this is a business. This is a business opportunity. Uh. You know, we're gonna be two, three, four years from now. Electric cars are gonna be across the board cheaper. I don't know if you or any of your listeners own an electric car, but the maintenance on these things are nothing. They last for ten years. Uh. You don't need to put oil in them, they just run. Uh. So the whole economics of this small scale local system, this distributed system, is complete change from what we've had for a hundred years. And Electric Vehicles Plug into your house or to your office. Turns out those batteries in your car now are in service of Your House and service of your office. They've become part of this gigantic virtual power plant, virtual grid. Uh, and it's you can think about like what Google did to to uh, you know, dictionaries right just changes everything. So I mean, you know, we're not really talking about the green side of this, because the green side of this you can make an argument that an electric car is not really all that much better than an oil car from from a from an energy carbon footprint point of view. Would that be right or not? Not Close. That's uh, that might have been the case ten years ago. Uh, I deal with this all the time, Joel. There's there's a whole chapter in this book I wrote called Freeing Energy, about debunking myths, and I did this crazy thing that no one had ever done before. I actually went and looked at government websites and did math and I present the math and I have links in the book...

...to the like spreadsheets. You can go on my site and type and look at the spreadshet and type of your own numbers to see what you like. But yeah, the fact is that the CEO two, total lifetime, CEO two foot print of electric cars is now way below that of a gasoline. So so here's here's the part that I'm talking about and if you've done the math, I'd like you just to kind of kind of spread it out here for us but you know, what I've heard is that, you know, charging the car h you know, you still have to produce electricity. Electricity takes oil, so you still need the fundamental, you know, energy production that you have now. So you're really instead of being a direct expense, it's become an indirect expense. Not at all, not at all. So when you straighten that out, because that's what I've always kind of heard, and give me the most extreme example, but there's many, the overall simple answer is that a gasoline engine is only twenty efficient. So whatever energy might be in the oil, YOU'RE gonna lose it to the heat. UH, whereas an electric motor converts ninet scent of the Energy and electricity to motion. But here's a really simple, tangible way to look at it. If you take an uh, you know, a lot of the gasoline we burned in our cars today, uh, is grown is corn ethanol, and so about ten percent of the Electricity of the gasoline in your cars from ethanol grown from corn somewhere in the Midwest. So take that, take an acre of land in Iowa and uh, if you grow corn on it and you converted to ethanol and then you drive a car with an ethanol so it goes x number of miles on an Acre's worth of corn in Iowa. You take so that's one thing. You take a second, second Acre right next to it, you put solar panels on it and you use those solar panels to charge an electric car and then electric car then drives a certain number of miles. Uh, this is all my website, it's all my book that I've had experts look at it. There's no Bologna here. I've been a professional analyst, strategist. The car that's driven by an Acre solar panels in Iowa go seventy...

...times, seven, zero times farther than a car, uh, gasoline powered, car powered by an acre of corn grown on Um in the same the next Acre in Iowa. They are electric cars are so much more efficient. Electricity as an energy carrier so much more efficient. All right, so this is just I don't want to stay on this topic too long, but what about the batteries of the car? Bad for the society? They're there are I mean, what about the solar panels? Take all this kind of technology? That that's hard to mind. Or what is that? Is that all Bologny too? Or is that is there's something. Hey, listen, anytime you're gonna make something, you're gonna have to mind, you're gonna have to make it so every single thing we do is going to take a little bit of environmental impact, but you're talking about orders of magnitude difference. Just because making a solar panel or battery has an environmental impact doesn't mean that it's anywhere near a hundred times as bad as what it is to remove oil and gas from the ground. So so it is better. Uh, it does have an impact, but it's a much, much smaller impact. Okay, so listen. So, so now we debunked the myths. Now we can be open minded about maybe some new ideas. I had to kind of get that off my chest because always happens, always kind of slow me down, you know, and make me think, well, maybe we're not going in the right direction. All right. So so you're saying that electric cars, rooftop panels, solar farms, you know, are are going to be able to deliver US enough energy, maybe renewable energy from the sun and other places, that we're going to be able to wean off of our dependence from oil. Is that what you're saying oil, coal and natural gas. I'm saying absolutely. And here's the really cool part for people that read freeing energy or listen to my podcast. As much as it's frustrating for some of the folks that want this to happen fast and they look at Washington D C and they just get frustrated because it's not happening very quickly, they're missing the other they're missing the same point that the people that want to keep it the same, the incumbents pint, which is that economics are going to force this change. It is just so much cheaper, and it's getting cheaper every year, to use...

...a little winded batteries than it is to do anything else, that at some point in the next couple of years, within this decade, people are gonna just sort of give up and say let's just do this clean stuff. Who Cares if it's clean, we're just gonna save a ton of money. It's more efficient, it's more resilient. Uh, it really isn't a question of policy or laws. Economics are going to take over. I'll tell you. I've always thought that the green thing is kind of a superfluous argument. It's not really the argument it's going to really cause the change? I've always thought it was economic, but I think that recently we've learned something new, and there's something new with this Russian conflict that we're in the middle of, is that when we buy oil from countries we don't get along well with, we are empowering those countries to turn their weapons against us. And it surprises me that the United States government hasn't worked harder to fund some of these initiatives to get us off international supplies of oil, foreign to MES, you know, whatever the issues are, get us off of these kinds of things. I mean, the government doesn't seem to be too much in favor of these oil companies anyway. The oil companies are kind of starting to wean themselves off of oil a where they know where this is going, they where they go and they want to kind of control these new these new plays. So how does that look? I mean, is the government gonna gonna try to encourage this? I mean, I mean is that is the policy talk kind of taking any any any foot I here. You know, the problem with the US government more than other governments. Hey, listen, I love America, right, but the problem with the US government is that every four years you're gonna have a completely different set of views on what to do. So it creates this huge pendulum swing. And businesses, which is what I'm all about, they struggle right they want to make decisions, they don't have a framework along term bets, and it's different in Asia and Europe, and so they're leaning into this stuff, just like they did with telecom. You know, the governments aren't quite as reactive as the United States, but but listen, you talk about oil. The thing that I learned in my research that it surprised me. UH, there's a Pentagon report that came out maybe ten years ago and it basically said that something like already all the money the US spends and...

...military is to protect the shipping lanes from oil deliveries from all over the world. So as soon as we start generating our own solar wind battery or heck, just pull all the natural gas and oil out of our own ground here, which we actually have the capacity to do, we can we can spend our money in other areas. We don't need to be, uh, sending young men and women out to putting their lives at risk all over the planet to protect oil lanes between countries, someone which we don't even like. So it's comes from part of the part of the issue is that we change to a different kind of energy system, than all those people that are protecting all those shipping lanes and doing all that stuff lose those jobs, and then what are we going to do with those people? We've kind of built the whole economy around those people. Yeah, it's just it's a it's very disruptive. I mean, what you're talking about has enormous implications. So what's the impact if if we change stones from from what you're talking about now into something else? WHO's who wins? Who Loses? That's some of the great question. That's a great question. You know, the losers are the incumbents, the ones that have spent a century babysitting this business model of regulated monopolies. Right. These are the folks, good companies doing good work. They've electrified the country. It's like, let's let's talk about specifically, so we're not just talking about oil companies like mobile and Shell and these these big oil companies, the refineries. You're talking about the companies that run the grids to like the most of them, all of them, and most of the work and freeing energy is around the utilities. It does talk. We have a chapter on oil and gas because vehicles and transportation are moving away from, you know, fossil fuels towards electricity. That's so they're threatened, but their threat is slower and it will take longer the threat to electric utilities. Um, in some sense they're hey, hey, listen, let's replace the cold coal plants with the wind and solar. That's Georgia power, where I live, just announcers...

...shutting down all but one coal plant by the end of this decade. Right. That's big news. Um. So obviously fifty thousand people that are mining coal in the United States, that's a problem. Got To take care of those folks. There's a lot of options, um. But there's two D fifty thousand people in the United States today full time installing solar. So solar is a much, much larger industry in terms of jobs than solar. So in terms of total jobs, clean energy is way more, way more interesting for job creation, for politicians to care about that and for communities to care about that. But of course, if you have a West Virginia Coal Community, you can't just snap your fingers and turn that into a solar solar installation community. But the jobs are there. It's just gonna take some disruption to switch them over. Um and and also, uh we. We've moved away from UH, from less educated jobs to more educated jobs, and the solar installations are probably more educated. They're not. These are these are blue collar jobs. These are people that don't, because of those coal workers, learned to do this new work. There's dozens and dozens of stories coming out of West Virginia where this is happening all the time in other places in Appalachia. So yes, this is happening all the time. It's not a straight path. It's not an easy path. If your third generation call miner, it's a tough tough to get your head around installing solar right. But the jobs are there and UH and and there's everyone I talked to you in the solar industry and the wind industry is is scrambling to find people. Um, it's it's hard work, it's honest work, it's trade work. You know that you need electricians and plumbers and all these other types of jobs. This isn't this isn't scientists and rocket people. This is you know, good old American Elbow Grease, which is one of the reasons I love this industry so much. Actually, that's that's a really good thing, because that would that would enable us to retrain some workers that are displaced, so they don't have to be completely displaced and cast aside. They can be re engaged into something else. Yes, and there's many, many more jobs in solar and wind than there are in in any kind of fossil fuels, and its solar wind grow...

...it's going to be even bigger. But the most exciting part, the disruptive part, which is what free energy is really about, is what we call the local scale. Right. You think about solar, everyone lumps it together. I've got a giant solar farm outside of my town, you know, two acres, kind of an eyesore. Uh. Then I've got solar on my roof from my church or on my school or shopping mall. Now these are actually two different industries and and people missed mistake, the fact even inside of electricity, the mistake the fact that these are two very different industries. And what my book talks about is how this small scale stuff, which I call local energy, is actually the disruptor it's actually where entrepreneurs and innovators and a lot of your listeners are gonna want to pay attention because this is the first time in history where electricity is not regulated. It can be it can be competitive, it can be innovative. People can go you and I can get sit down in your garage there and we can invent something new when we can sell it, because we can sell it to the store down the street, we can sell to the school, to the church, to your town. Um. That's the first time in electricity history where anyone can be inoventive that doesn't get stuck with utilities, regulative monopolies, m are these. Uh. Is this kind of power generation geographically limited? TWO PLACES TO GET MORE SUNSHINE? I mean doesn't work in lots of places. One of the most solar powered places in the world is Germany, which is about the same the same degree of solar as we get in Vermont. So yeah, it works everywhere. And Uh, and it's cools. You know, every single I think every eight hours shoal, enough solar energy from the sun hits the continency the United States to power our entire civilization for a year. But how are so much solar I believe that the sun admits that much power. But how how are human beings and capturing it and converting it, storing it, using it or all the things that they have to do. I mean, are we really good at it? Where are we still still? We're really good at it. Where we stink is on the bureaucracy and red tape. That's...

...the part we stink at. So you think about this. Right, when you put a solar on a building or or your house or my house, you're gonna pay metric is about three dollars a lot. Okay, three dollars a lot. So typical system, four thousand wats, four K as they call it. So Twelve Tho dollars. That's all in labor equipment. You take that exact same four case, four thousand WAT system, but the same panels, the same inverter. Someone's on the roof installing it. You take them down to Australia. It's gonna cost him a buck, ten US per what. So it's three times more expensive to install the identical hardware in the US. It's it's what they call soft costs in the industry because it's all red tape and bureaucracy. And Paperwork and all kinds of other stuff. Australia said, screw let's just make it easy. One like a federal law to streamline, uh, installing solar anywhere in the country. Guess what? One in four people in Australia have solar on their roofs, compared to the make one and one and fifty in the United States. And and is that because the United States is busy protecting the companies that pay money to the Congress people and so forth? That means that our political system, or what is it? You know, it's it's partially because the electric monopolies, who are the largest lobbyists in the United States of any industry, larger than oil and gas, larger than farmer, larger than financial services, they spend more percentage of their revenue and lobbying than anybody else. That's part of the reason. Um. Part of the reason is that I don't know if you've ever met a solar installer, but these these are small, mom and pop companies all over the United States. They don't they don't get together and, you know, and link arms and get stuff done. As a as a lobby and group is a voice. They're they're just not very good at it. Ye, small, small companies. That's not their strength. It isn't, it isn't. And yet they have this incredible voice. They have they have two or fifty thousand jobs United States, right there in every corner of every part of the United States. These people are working fantastic and here's a cool thing. If you build a solar panel on your church or your house or whatever, h Um, ten of the money that you pay stays in your community.

So think about it. If you if your electric utility builds a giant solar farm twenty miles outside of town, Um, very little that money is going to show up in your community. But if you install it on your roof your church, is going to go towards your schools, your children's schools, towards a fire department, towards a police department. So there's so much economic benefit for billing these small systems for communities. And then you get into the whole sort of disadvantage. Communities get resiliency and and you know, really, it's a wonderful story that literally, Jill, nobody's talking about. That's why I spent four years of my life writing this book freeing energy, because no one's talking about this and it's huge. It's not just the biggest business opportunity, it's it's a huge of the efficiency of these like home units. Yeah, I've kind of heard that. You know, cost twenty grand to install them and the break even is years. Is that? Is that right? I mean is what should we expect to break even to be? Or are these going to become more efficient over time so we get a faster break even? I mean, what's what's what's real here? We don't need there to be more efficient because we just need all this bureaucracy to go away. So if it's three bucks a lot to install it, it'll take you, but we're, depending where you live and things like that, between four and seven years to pay it back, and people kind of get frustrated by that. But think about what that actually means. I mean you gotta, you gotta stop for a second and think about that payback period means. That means that over the course of let's call it five years, around number, then you're not paying a dime more for to keep your house lit, in your recognition running than you did before. And that means at the end of five years or whatever the time is, to pay it back. You now own that asset on your roof and all the electricity generates, which could be anywhere between a third and of which your house needs, is generated by something you own. That electricity becomes free. So Your Electric Bill Plu Mits. But at...

...the end of at the end of the five years, is the equipment still worth worth anything? or the place because the next generation came out? The average life of a solar panel is thirty two years. Even if there's the next generation, it doesn't lose efficiency? Nope. Well, I mean they use they lose about half a percent of efficiency every year, but they're warranted for thirty years these days, so not a problem. Why aren't? Why aren't new houses mandated to have these? I mean, I mean they're mandating that cars go to electric. They're mandating that, you know, people do less watering and less utilization of these utilities. If this is such a great thing, back to the bureaucracy, why don't they just say let's put them on the House and build it into the price of the house? It's Joel. I'M gonna I'M gonna go out on a limb and say it's almost as if one of the largest and most profitable industries in the nine states, which is the largest lobbying industry in the United States, doesn't want this to happen. Just maybe, maybe that has something to do with it. Uh, maybe has as much to do with it is uh, four years ago it wasn't cheaper to put solar on your roof it is now. This is a new thing. That's why I got into the space four years ago, because ten years ago, you do this because you put solar in your roof because you're an environmentalist. Uh, now you do it because you're gonna save money. That's a big change and it happen fast and it's gonna get even cheaper. So where's the where's the money here? If somebody wants to start investing in this, because this is a new trillion dollar deal, where do you see the money? I would tell people and listen, I'm not an expert on investing. Uh, you know, I've been a venture capitalist, I've been a CEO for most of my life, but don't take any advice from me on investing. That said, I will tell you what I think. I'll tell you what I do. Um, I would stay away from just general solar and wind because those are almost if you don't look carefully, there's a giant solar forms and all the profits from those lower cost energy sources go to the utilities. Um. That's why the utilities love solar and win,...

...because it helps make them more profitable. They're not taking your bills down, by the way, they're they're they're taking that profit for them and their shoulders. Their generation costs go down lower when they get when they get the energy this way. Yeah, uh so. That's why they don't want you to put it on your roof, because all those profits go to you and your family and your community and your church in all those places. UH So. Uh, the opportunities I look for our where there's the small scale stuff, where you're talking about e V charging companies, Um, uh, solar residential batteries. You know, Tesla is a good example, but they're so crazy and the prices are swepping down that it's not really a good bet for this. But if you look at what Tesla does and you find companies that aren't is crazy and arn't is volatile. Uh, you know, that's it. I got a bunch of friends have made a total fortune on Tesla, but it's too crazy for my taste. I'm a conservative investor. I like things that make sense and don't go don't become memes. So then you look for things like Sun run, and I'm not recommending them. I don't actually know the company, I don't know where the revenues or profits are, but they're a good example of a company that puts a rooftop solar up. And there's a lot of companies like that in the US and uh, those those companies. Again, they go up and down because things are volatible, but in the long run more and more people are gonna want to put solar on the roof. And I also look for companies that own distribute. It's called D E R, is distributed energy resources, and there's a group of companies that are basically in that space, some of which are public, that you can they're they're doing everything from e V charging to batteries to uh solar tracking like next tracker. All kinds of different companies doing that. Uh. And, by the way, there's also a couple of early hedge funds and etfs that are doing all this hard work, that are basically finding these early stage local energy companies that are publicly traded and letting you sort of buy them as basket. So if you do some looking there, it's probably the simplest way to do it. But this is a trend that's it's a juggernaut's very early, but it's a juggernaut. So how long do you think it's gonna take before...

...we really uh, what we really notice is that ten percent or market share where the utilities really start feeling the pain. I think they're filling it today. UH, they're feeling it, but most people aren't aware of it. So I'd say electric vehicles in three are gaining widespread awareness. You know, it's no longer what are you crazy for buying one of those? You're you're thinking now, maybe I could save money, maybe it's going to be as good as everyone says, because a ton of people, I see these cars everywhere now, and so I think we're two or three years down the road from where we'll have that same awareness for rooftop solar and and residential micro grids where you gotta batter in Your House. But you know, the thing is driving this, and you talked about was my payback time, which a lot of people don't really get right because it's it's it's you don't spend any more money, you're just how much longer till it's free? Right. But but the bigger thing driving people is adopting as all these outages that are happening right Texas winter right, doubt if five people died because of the whole grid went down for four or five days, who have thought Texas would have their grid to go down for four or five days? Right now everyone is watching Texas during the summer because it's going to be a miracle. Um, their grid has come within a quarter of percent of going offline. Uh, this so far in the last two weeks. Right. So people in Texas who follow this and understand how vol it does in California right, completely different state, completely different wiring, but they're also having their power grids go down all the time because the wildfires and publicly the utilities shutting down the grid in places because they don't want to start wildfires. So from Texas to California to the most different places in the United States, people are buying these small scale systems for their houses. Not they don't give a crap about saving money. They want their they want their power to stay on when the grid goes down. They want to be able to, you know, have the refrigerator, continue to keep their food and sometimes they're medicines and sometimes they're medical equipment running. They want their kids to build a zoom school, whatever it is. UH, they work remotely, they have to be online. So for these these people...

...are paying a slight premium, but they have guaranteed resiliency in their homes. Now that's probably the biggest fastest thing driving the adoption of what I call local energy. This whole this whole area. This is this is quite fascinating to me. I mean it's uh, I wonder what it's going to take for the government to uh too, to endorse this sort of thing. I mean I wonder how long, you know, can they keep fighting before the fight is over? I mean there came a point when Uber was trying to take over the taxi business and the taxis and the unions and everybody was fighting and they fought back and they did all these things that tried to push people away, but eventually the will of the people want out and Uber now is, you know, is a popular thing in cities around America and around the world. Yeah, I wonder how long it's going to take before the utilities fall out of favor and and they start saying, you know what, let's do more the let's do more of this natural uh, to me it's it's to me it's, I think the security arguments the strongest of all the arguments. You know, that that we have to look out for national security. We don't want to buy, you know, anything from foreign countries that we don't get along with. And I mean I think that there's just all sorts of problems internationally that I think the dollars suffering. You know, there's just all kinds of problems. So, uh, what do you think? How long it's gonna BE? You know, how like you have a prediction. I would say it's gonna Happen in the next five years. And Uh, all it takes. And the reason I you know, I was a tech CEO for twenty five years. Took one of my company's public I mean, why in the world when I leave that career to go do the write a book? Right, I'm not a book author. Why am I sitting on your podcast today? Right, I'd love it if people about the book, but honestly, they can get a lot of from my website to listen to my podcasts are free. The reason I'm doing this, man, is that there's this huge idea that nobody sees coming and, uh, I want to if, if two people listen in your podcast and say, holy cow, this...

...is this is the thing, I need to write a letter to my legislator, I need to go attend to public utility commissioners meeting in my state. Um, that's that's what I'm here for. I'm I want to be one of those voices, one of those authors, one of those talkers. It gets people to wake up and say this is this thing is real, because no one's saying it. And you probably think I'm crazy. Probably two thirds of people listening say this guy's office rocker. No, I don't. I don't think anybody does. But I'm sitting here wondering. You know, is there any money in this for you? Are you position to make any money this thing takes off? Nope, I mean I'm gonna, Oh yeah, I mean I'm gonna be in business. I've got several startups I'm working on that are going to make money in this because I'm a startup person, uh, and I'm an investor, but I got nothing to sell. On this podcast here, if someone wants to buy at I don't mean that you sell anything, I mean I mean are you positioned to profit from this whole deal? Uh. And the long term, yes, uh. In the near term, Um, I'm pretty conservative and but I'm I'm a startup guy, and so this start you will see me. I already have one startup which is slightly participating in this and I'm involved with several others. Uh. And then the next five years you'll see me do and both as an investor and helping spin up companies. That's this is enormous and that's ultimately what I want to have happened. But listen, I didn't do this book to do to make money. I did this book because people need to know what's going on. Uh. And if they read it, they're gonna this isn't like one of these books by Bill Gates. Right, Bill Gates writes this book and it's like, Oh my God, we're gonna die, climate is gonna kill us all. He has all these facts and figures, and a large number of them don't even tell you where to learn more. Right, there's no citations, no hard math. I have four hundred citations in the book. If someone says bullshit, they can go read about it. They can say, listen, you went to the US joint tax commission website, you pulled raw data from it, you put it in a spreadsheet to show me. I did the math. They can send me a letter and say I don't believe you right, but I want people to whose skeptics, to read this and say, holy cow, this thing is coming. I need to get involved, I want to start a business, I need to invest, but let's start a movement. Man, it only takes five percent, according to research, five percent of people to start a movement and we're getting close.

Well, listen, you know, the promise of the show is the inside track. It's strategies that give people and their businesses the inside track, and when somebody lives up to the promise of delivering the best, smartest, fast way to get something done, uh, then we call those people advantaged players. And you have lived up to the promise and that makes you an advantage player and we really thank you for sharing your insights, being on the show, telling us what we probably knew, what we certainly need to know and probably don't know. Uh, and I already myself there's just a bunch of myths that circulate that I've kind of always questioned or what it about, and you kind of dispelled the number of those here today. So, Bill, thanks for being on the show, thanks for being with us, and really appreciate your your time and your energy. Joel, thanks for having me. It's an honor and I hope your listeners get as excited about this as you and I are. Well listen, I appreciate it. We will. You've been listening to profit from the inside with Joe Black. Okay. For more insights and to learn more, visit Joel Block Dot Com. How about a shout out and a huge thanks to our podcast show producer David Wolfe and the team at Auto Vita Studios. Profit from the inside wouldn't be possible without these wonderful professionals. To learn more or to find out how you can launch and produce your own podcast show, reach out to www dot auto vita dot com. That's a U D I v I T A DOT COM.

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