183: Next Level Selling: The Inside Track on Guided Selling Technology

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Contact info:

David John Bonney

Email: david@fourtyfive.io

Website:https://fourtyfive.io/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnbonney/

Bio:

David Bonney is the CEO and Founder of the world’s first SaaS platform specifically designed for Sales Trainers, FourtyFive.io. David has been focused on sales execution and process for 15 years. That focus has spanned the entire Revenue Operations Lifecycle and has allowed him to create a powerful yet unique sales platform that helps companies with a proven sales process drastically improve execution and ultimately conversion.

David works with process-oriented companies. They know that when great people and great process come together, anything can be achieved. It is with this focus that David has been able to innovate and progress the sales industry at levels that have never been seen before.

This innovation led to the creation of the world’s first Saas platform specifically designed for Sales Trainers. It focuses on improving the actual execution of discovery and demonstration calls to improve the consistency of outcomes across closed rate, average revenue per deal and time to close. This platform helps sales shops, of any size, produce like the biggest sales teams in the world and companies around the globe scale their revenue production faster than ever thought possible.

David is the author of More Sales, Bigger Impact. This game-changing book goes into detail about how the craft of sales is dying due to poor training and actionable ways we can turn that around! David lives in Nashville Tennessee with his beautiful wife and two daughters where great people, great food, and great times are the cultural order of the day.

This is profit from the Inside with Joel Block Insights to give your business the inside track. And now here's your host, Joel Block. If you're anything like me, you wonder often how do we as a company perform more consistently and keep our sales numbers growing? How do we get our bottom performers to do better so we can bring up the overall company accomplishment? To answer those questions, David Bonny, David, welcome to the show. Thanks Joel, great to be here. Hey, So those are those are hard questions that executives worry about. Uh, my first question is, you know, we're talking about how do we bring up you know, the overall company numbers um and what are the answers? Seems to be, Well, if we get our bottom performers come up, then the numbers will come up. I mean we talk about the rule. Is it really possible to get those bottom people to come up? I mean, is it worth it to get the bottom people to come up? Or should we be looking at a different segment of our sellers? Yeah, it's it's it's a great question. So the way that we've the way that I've typically learned in my long career of sales leadership, revenue leadership, and then UM consulting over the years is the best performing organizations are the organizations that can raise the floor. How do we get our worst performers performing at the highest level possible? UM and UH. As we raise the floor, we raise our mid level group. And obviously we still have our rabbits are eagles that are setting the setting the pace. Now the key is your question, right, well, how do we actually get those bottom performers performing UM. Well, the school thought now is you bring them in, you find out as soon as they're not performing, you put them on a pip, they don't get results. You kind of loose and then you go find the next crop and you just kind of churned through that bottom. Well, that's extremely expensive and you're turning through a lot of leads. So what our perspective is, what if we can eliminate failure, We're can eliminate failure at that bottom rung and push everybody else up. That is the secret to ultimately having the highest performing UH, the highest performing sales organization or department. You know, I kind of the way I've kind of always done it. I hire a class of sales people and you know, maybe you hire four or five or ten with the expectation of keeping three at the end of a month or two. And I mean maybe that's old school. You know, maybe it's possible to put a little more, give a little TLC to the people at the bottom. I don't know, is that I mean, is it? Does it work? Yeah? Well? So? The the key too, actually creating more predictable sales performance out of our sales reps...

...comes down to us changing how we're focused in our sales organization and what we've concluded over the last five years of deep, deep research. But you know, the last fifteen years I've been in sales and revenue is sales rep failure at the highest level is really being driven by small failures by sales reps. And what I mean by that is sales reps are not doing a good job. They're failing and unpacking and gathering the right information and the sales conversation. So in our exhaustive audits and you know, getting deep down and listening to calls, we see it all the time. There's at least two of the five criteria that's being missed on nearly every sales call that we listened to. And the criteria that I'm talking about here is are they identifying the right decision makers? They're not doing that. They're not talking to the right people, They're not gathering the right information and things stall Um. Are they getting to to a clear level of pain that dictates urgency and the priority the organization should be making this that's usually where all the vast majority of sales reps fall down. Um. Are they diagnosing the problem that's actually going on and getting the prospect to think different about what it is that they're experiencing, like challenger sale and problem reframes? Um. Are they calculating ur o I to desensitize price or they um uh quantifying any expected outcome that they can bump up against budget That rarely ever happens. Um. And are they gauging the company's ability if this problem does need to get solved? Are they gauging the company's ability to be able to solve it on their own without outside help? That is rarely ever happening. So it's these small failures in the sales conversation that are being that are happening repeatedly by your bottom performers that are really creating the large failure and the lack of their success that if we can solve those and if we can get our bottom performers gathering that information, bringing it all together in a clear and decisive way, um, we'll find that more prospects will convert move forward with them similar to to our top performers. You know, all of those things, those are all kind of skills that that someone could learn, and you could teach people how to do that better. I kind of ask the earlier stage question of what personality is suited for sales? I mean, are there certain people The word sales by itself is very off putting to a large number of people. What if we could tell people marketing type people, friendly people, outgoing people that uh, they're not selling, they're helping or or or they're doing something other than selling. Um, you know, I mean, what if we can we can turn the dial just a little bit so that they don't think of it as selling because selling is sort of equated with pushing instead of I kind of think of selling more as pulling myself. But I mean, I wonder if we could turn the dial on that psychology a little bit and then teach them the things that you're talking about Yeah. Yeah, so I emphatically agree with that, and it's one of the reasons...

...why the our our latest book is called Biocentric Selling, and what biocentric selling is aimed to do is it's it's meant to turn that dial and say, is our company and the stuff that we sell the star of the show. And we're just out there saying thanks, Joel, thanks for joining this call, thanks for spending time with me today so I can pitch you my stuff. Or are we coming at it from more of a bio centric approach or they the star of the show, or we're more like doctors where it's really our job to come in and facilitate a process that helps the buyer ultimately take the action that they need to um. The key insight that we had on this is I believe it was Gartner. Gartner did a study and they I'm sure you've heard this stat They say about fifty seven of the sales process is complete before a prospect ever schedules a call with a salesperson. Right, that's at there first, that's at their first thought, Oh, I need something. How do I get somebody that's gonna try to push me into spending money? Oh, we go to Google, we research, we download things, we watch videos, right, we go to YouTube. So they're already through the process, and we call that buyer's intent. The buyer's intent is I've spent my time and energy researching this and I'm now on a call with you, and that already says I have a problem that's big enough that I need a solution, and that problem is causing enough pain and I don't know if I can solve it on my own to get to the outcomes that I want. So they've already shown that intent. So the work that we're doing actually manipulate them and persuade them, and all the sell link tactics that you're alluding to, it's actually working against the very intention that we see buyers are coming into the process with. We just have to facilitate a clear process for them, and more often than not, they want to take that action that we want them to. And if we can be the ones to provide that clarity for them in that journey, um better than the competition. They will choose us over the competition the vast, vast majority of the time. You know, I wonder, I wonder when some of those old school techniques are going to die because the seventies, eighties, nineties, I mean, the Internet didn't exist in those times, and now people have this tool that it gets them fifty ready to move forward. One of the things that that strikes me listening to you is that not only do they understand the problem, but they recognize that the severity of the problem enough to take some limited action to even get the process moving. And that's very dramatic. So, you know, one of the things that you know, you're talking about pitching versus educating. It takes a lot more skill, self discipline patients to educate and kind of help a customer through a process then it does just to pitch him and just...

...memorize the material and shoot it at him. So it's really a much higher level kind of thing, and not everybody has the the wherewithal to be in that position, which I think is really a much much stronger position. Yeah. Well, and what we've actually found the jokes I agree with you and I And what what that ultimately does, though, is that that that creates an unsolvable situation for certain personality types. And what we've wanted to do is we've wanted to with all the companies that we work with. We want to say, how do we actually go solve that problem? Because we clearly haven't solved the problem of how do we hire the right people? The best answer is go higher ten and allow the two to three to to bubble up. Right. Well, if we can't go through that approach, if we have people on, how do we keep them on? If we hire people, how do we hire more effectively? This is what we call This is where we enter into the world of sales playbooks. They're should be a series of questions that we need to ask, just just like a doctor does in the process of in the in the patient experience. If the um uh, if a doctor comes in and is willing nearly about the process, they're not going to be able to get to the right diagnosis. They're not going to be able to explain their treatment to us in a way that makes sense. Well, if we can create a playbook which is not a script, but it's also not a free for all conversation that could go anywhere, creating a very high likelihood that we don't capture the right information from the prospect. If that happens, then we're in a position where um uh we can get the vast majority of our sales people executing playbooks that give them the structure that they need to be able to unpack that information very consistently in a way that makes sense to the prospect. You know, I, I know you come from more of a direct marketing background, you know, the Internet marketing, this kind of thing, and that that certainly colors the way you think about things. What's your opinion about some old school techniques like cold calling? Does cold calling workers? That just something that just needs to be bury the hatchet on that deal and put it aside. Yeah, No, cold cold calling works. We have several several clients that still leverage cold calling and get great results from it. Um, that's obviously more from an spr perspective, which is here Oh sorry, sales development rep. That's that we're coming through. We've got technology, we're making two hundred fifty dials a day, and then we're playing the numbers game all the way down through for contacts, effective contacts, scheduled calls. UM that absolutely doesn't know what we really need to do is we kind of need to break There's certain certain things cold calling works, certain things higher level techniques work force so we we're gonna bifurcate or even you know, breaking into more pieces than two. What what segment are we talking about? Where this biocentric thing works? Is it every single process or is it certain...

...processes work better for that than others. Yeah, it's the way we look at it, every single process. So just like in marketing, I have to speak to your pains and what you're going through from an SDR perspective, if I'm doing outbound dialing, I better have an effective way to speak to your pains and what you're going through. If you're gonna give me your time and attention, so we need to understand that and the most effective SDR scripts if you will, because you can use a script there really leverage that. Now you've really touched on a big point. It's very uh, it can be very powerful to bifurcate those two strategies. To have your SDR is doing the outbound calling lower lower comp plan more consistently, more more focused from that consistency, and then allow your executive sales people, your sales reps to handle the meetings that are being scheduled your hotter leads so you're not spending a lot of money having your sales people do for to your fifty dials a day um that may or may not be the most effective use of their time, and you end up having you know, bloated bandwidth. So one crew is doing lead gion, another crew is doing you know, higher level sales closing advisory, whatever, whatever the different techniques are that are being used, right, yep, yep, that's right, absolutely, And then you also create a feeder from your SDR team, from your legion team into your sales team as well, which is great because you can you can evaluate cultural aspects, um, core value alignment, personality type as an SDR that will translate over into that sales rep the sales rep role more effectively after you've seen them perform in their in your company for six months, six and twelve months. So so one way is lead generation where you call people and you get them to say, I'm interested to hear more about this. But then there's the whole internet marketing mechanism. And one of the things that I've always done. Years ago, I stopped making cold calls. I just I just stopped because I kind of saw the beauty of how internet marketing works, and I developed this approach. I call it raise your hand. That I won't talk to anybody who doesn't raise their hand. And I kind of think as I think of selling as like playing playing catch, volleyball and baseball, throw it back and forth. I throw you the ball. If you drop the ball and throw it on the floor and you don't throw it back, that it's over. There's no reason to keep calling that person, right. I mean, I would imagine you feel the same, right if they throw it back to you, and then you're going, yeah, now this person wants to play ball and we can have a discussion, and no guarantee it's going to close, but at least it's an interesting person. And so I I use you know, one of these uh cowardly type links. You know that they listen if you want to talk to me, if you've got some problem that you think I can help you with, here's the link, get on my calendar. It's not a pushy approach, but it does, you know, tell me that the person has self identified. There one of that fifty seven percent or whatever...

...of the number is that is self identified as having a problem that they think that I can address. And if I've done a good job of helping them understand the problem there they are. I mean, so where does that fit into the whole realm of things? Yeah, great question. I mean that that is absolutely especially the world that I came from, UM, inbound marketing is. I mean, that's a big deal. You want to put agitation out into the market, into the digital world, UH, and you want to be able to create the opportunity for people to self identify, UM, as long as you've got good messaging to self identify and continue down the process. UM. The problem typically that happens with that is at least in today's world, what I see is that is the primary approach. UH. Companies that move into cold calling and other cold methods they've they've kept out on that they can't really quite get uh their their AdWords to work as well anymore. Obviously Facebook is having a ton of issues every century. Targeting got taken away by Apple. But as those digital methods, you know they're not they're not infinite in scale. As those start to hit a cap and companies need to continue to increase their lead generation to scale UH their overall sales numbers and revenue, UM, they'll get into the cold cold calling side of it. But Um, the great thing about inbound is those leads that are that are already showing that intent and they are scheduling with us. We want to continue that, right, We want to continue that process. And that's one of the that's one of the major points of continuity that we feel gets missed. Um, if I could give you guys, uh, if I could get everybody listening to this, one of the simplest opportunities to be able to improve sales calls within bound leads is that first question after you come in, build some light rapport and set the agenda for how the call is going to go, you want to come in and you want to ask Joel. When people typically, uh, schedule time on my calendar, there's either problem they're trying to solve or a goal they're trying to achieve. Which is it for you? You're not evaluating solutions if you don't have a problem or you don't have a goal that you're trying to achieve, And let's create that continuity and they're gonna go right into it. There won't be random questions that start to confuse the prospect in their journey of trying to get to the other side of what they're trying to achieve. You started off there. That's a great way to kick off any sales call within a playbook that doesn't sound scripted, but also sets the right tone and put your sales reps in a position to win the call right from the start. Now it's awesome because you know, I mean, I'll after a little bit of small talk. Okay, look, so you put this appointment on my calendar. You know what can I do for you? And they just they just lay it out. You know, here, here's what I've been I've been trying this for a while. It's not working, and you know, can you give me a better way to make it happen or whatever it is? And they just they just do it. So I would imagine life is not black or white, Life is not this or that. So how are companies blending these approaches of being buyer centric with direct...

...outbound and being bio centric with some kind of inbound I mean, how are they merging some kind of an approach? What are you noticing? Yeah, so it's really all the same, and that's actually one of the great benefits of our approach. So what we teach our clients to do is you've got to create a sales playbook and get a playbook is we've got eight eight standard questions with probing in between. It's not a script, but they're also not out there playing open gm uh, you know, or pick up basketball. UM. There's a play that they're running and they can read the defense and they can do certain things within that to score, to score uh, to put points on the board. But the key is how do we get the right amount of information unpacked and then how do we capture it? So we have sales playbooks and then we install those and technology that we have, which is guided selling technology that allows us to that allows our sales people to capture that information from assistently and then display it to the prospect in a way where they can create UH, where they can get clear on what their action plan is or what their story or narrative is so that they can take action. Now, the blending of the two UH, the outreach and the inbound really gets powerful because as we start asking that initial question upfront, Let's say a client has five to ten reps and they're doing forty to fifty of these sales calls a month. Well, after one month, you can very easily get two to five calls where you have documented what are the problems that they're trying to solve them, what are the goals that they're trying to achieve. Well, what's the best thing for you to use in your outbound Your outbound calls should be speaking to the problems and goals that your prospect, that your market are trying to achieve. And you can now blend that data and they can inform one another, so you actually get more targeting. A lot of companies don't know their prospect very well and or they don't know the language to articulate it in a way that's clear for them. This, this accountant is both and allows for the continuity of that experience to be seamless. Yeah, that's things have really gotten more sophisticated over the last thirty years. And and I would uh tell our audience that if you're using some of these old school approaches, you need to really rethink your approaches, you know, because it may seem well playbook, Yeah, we call this something else before. What you're talking about is not just a little a little nuance. You know, you're talking about something that really is material, really using data, using survey information, using material to frame the questions based on what you're learning, you know, from your mass approach. And that's that's a very very big thing. And that's I would imagine a lot of companies are still shooting in the dark. They're really not using all the data and information that they have available to them. That's right, yeah, well, and the big problem is they're not. They're not they're not capturing it because they're capturing a ton of data and their marketing automation software system or their CRM, and then there's a black...

...hole when it comes to the sales conversation. They don't know what is transpired there. They don't actually know what's happening easily on those calls at a mass level, unless they're taking a full week and listening to nothing but call reviews, which nobody knowing. What this makes me think is, you know, listening to a customer and having ear plugs in your ears, just like it doesn't matter what you say, because I'm not gonna listen and change anything that I do no matter what you say. And right, and that is just not that certainly, that's certainly not buyo centric. I mean, of all the things, uh, you know, if you're not paying attention to what people say, if you're not taking their feedback into account, and by the way, you're not taking your employees feedback into account. If you're not taking your buyers feedback, you know, and all the other people who are in your ecosystem. If you're not taking that into account. Uh, then you really, you know, are not growing in the right direction as a company. I imagine, Yeah, yeah, that's right. And and you know it's when you talk about the sophistication of this. I can't harp on this enough. The days of listening for the next sales trick or the next sales tip. Here's what you do on this objection, those days are over. If that's what you're leaning towards. If that's what you're listening to, you're you're the old school sales chain and you're out there just winging it and you're looking for these little tips and tricks when there's a fundamental um a shift that is starting to already happen in the sales world and in the buyer's journey, and our buyers are demanding it. I think they said, uh, is it? Something like six people wish they didn't even have to deal with a sales rep. I think that was from LinkedIn's lay to study. I mean that's a big deal. They don't want to talk to sales people. Well, why because we're not providing them the value that they're looking for in their process of already trying to solve their problems. So the ability to be able to capture this kind of intangible data like we were us talking about is great. But when we can leverage guided selling technology, some of the other data that we can start to capture is mind boggling. If we can go through and say, okay, Joel, what's the problem that you're trying to solve? The goal you're trying to achieve, and we can unpack that information, it's very easy for me to ask you, okay, Joel, Well, let's talk about decision makers. Who's responsible for that goal or or solving that problem? Who has the authority to make the decision on that? How do you guys buy how many decision makers are involved in this process? Well, guess what. Guided selling technology allows your sales team to start to input that information because that's necessary for them to close the deal. And we can actually start to bubble up information like on average, how many decision makers need to be involved for your lowest performance on average? How often are they not getting the decision makers on the call? And that's what's torpedoing them at the end? Let me let me let me ask you something. So I love this concept of I did selling technology. I mean that's I mean that that's a...

...great new buzzword that you know is probably gonna take over the place, and it's going to be a thing. You know, you're coming up pretty quick. I imagine, UM, A lot of the executives who listen to our show from these middle size companies are larger mental size, some are smaller mental size. What does it cost to install this kind of technology? Is that AI driven? Is it research based? I mean where you know, what does it really take to to implement these kinds of solutions so that companies can really put some thought into it? Yeah? Well, I mean the good the good thing about it is that, um, the process of figuring out what any company's playbooks should be, it's actually staring them right in the face. So what our company does, we will go through and we'll audit the best calls from your best reps and your worst reps and that's how we figure out the difference. If you can figure out what your best reps are doing and start to codify that into a playbook, and then put that playbook in technology in a way where they can now get their entire team implementing that, or at least their bottom performers implementing that. Now, suddenly you are clearly on the path of being able to do exactly what you just talked about. Now, the cost on that is very low because we're leveraging your own data. This isn't some sophisticated machine learning thing. Every organization is different. Now, there are some best practices out there, but we found it's a lot better to identify what are your top people doing because everybody else on the team will then buy into that process a lot more, and they'll have a lot more confidence in it than some random person coming in or some random data being put up on a slide deck. So leveraging that, uh, that intelligence that's already inside your company and then codifying it into playbooks is actually it's a very inexpensive process to go through, and the continuity on that uh in terms of um ongoing costs, it's very low as well. In comparison to what typical ongoing sales training would be. Because if you wanted, you know, if somebody wanted to bring Joel in and you were going to train their team every week for a year, how much how much would you be charging? I mean thousands and thousands of dollars right By putting this in technology and creating a more scalable coaching platform, any sales trainer like us are, our sales training methodology can scale a lot more and we can pass those cost benefits over to our clients to make sure that all sales people are getting the support that they absolutely need instead of charging these companies are ridiculous premium to be able to get access to it. Well, what I like about that, and what I believe in about that is that it's because it's a technology solution, You've got a larger upfront cost but a smaller residual cost. So in the long run, it cost you less and you end up owning something that works for you for a long time. And that's you know, So if you just do training, training, listen, training is very important, and I believe in training, but so you're constantly doing training, where as opposed to you're...

...talking about gathering data that they're training from. They have to learn with the datas and by the way that I imagine that that's changing from time to time. You know, how often do they have to re examine their data? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, So I mean there's there's certain things that are going to go on. There's there's data that you're going to be examining, which is going to be um, the quality of the information that your sales people are gathering. So let's just say that's on one side, Well, you're gonna want to You're gonna want to evaluate that information as you're watching the performance of your salespeople. You want to be able to see as soon as their sales, as soon as they're leading indicators or their pipeline is starting to show issue. You want to be able to go into their sales forms. You want to be able to look at their execution, the summaries, and you want to be able to identify the data that they're capturing and the problems with it and be able to start to coach them up. Um. The big problem that we see in midsize organizations is the gap between sales rep and sales manager. The sales manager's ability to effectively coach up their reps and get them past the performance gaps that they're experiencing is huge because the salesperson comes in and said, oh, Joel, this is what happened. You know, I thought the deal was going to close, but so and so, so and so, and you're just strictly relying on the opinion of a sales rep who's gonna, you know, give you that explanation in a way that makes them still have the security of their job in line. But what if we actually had data that we could look at and look at to see what's the quality of well, what are they executing to what's the quality of that execution? And then three, quantifiably, what are we getting our prospects to. So there's two major points of data that we're able to capture. One is the priority and urgency scale. So if I come to you and I say, hey, Joel, you know, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen realistically speaking, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen if you guys can't solve this problem that you're dealing with here hitting revenue targets, whatever data it's gonna be. This is gonna be that. Well, you'll ultimately get to we're probably gonna have to do a layoff. Were gonna have to lay of our staff. We're gonna have a problem hitting our budget. Uh, investors are going to be barking down, blah blah blah. Right, Okay, great, after after I get that information from you, Gel, it's so important for me to capture data. Okay, great. So based on that, Joel, on a scale of one to ten, how would how does your organization rate this as a priority? One being not urgent and not a priority at all, tend being very urgent and has to be solved soon, and it is a high priority. Well, you're gonna give me that number, and it better be an eight, nine or ten or you're probably not going to take action. So if I'm in putting that into guided selling technology, after a hundred sales calls, I can start to look at my sales reps and I can see who's better at getting to pain and establishing the priority or the problem that the prospect is dealing with as a high priority and something urgent that they need to solve versus another. And that data gives me a real quantifiable way to say Joel on average at a six point mine with your with...

...your prospects. Jamie is at an eight point two on average. This is the gap we have to We have to dial in your ability to drive a high level of urgency and priority with the problems that need to be solved in that organization. And usually it's because you want to have a feel good sales conversation or if you want to keep it strictly strategic, is why you're not going there. But now we have a quantifiable piece of data to show why you're not doing a good job at getting your your prospects to take action. How put to this is technology driven? Are these reports? Are these phone callege? Are they being examined by computers? They mean examined by people or your firm, the client firm. Who who's doing this and who's laying all this stuff out? Yeah, So what happens basically is when we hop out a call, we either if it's if you're in the field, we have forms that you bring up on your phone or you just bring it up on your on your desktop, and that form is a way for you to execute the playbook and input the information. Once that information is input, the prospect experience. The prospect facing summary is then delivered to the prospect and we can actually um uh, we actually count the number of times your company would view the summary screen that we sent over to you. So if I think you're going to close, but nobody in your organization is clicking on the summary after discovery that I sent over to you, that's quantifiable data that shows me you guys are not very interested. You're not as excited in this as we think you are. So between the sales rep inputs and then the prospect action that they're taking, our system bubbles up those reports. Specifically for managers. We want that we want the company's managers to be able to leverage this data that is consistently coming through so that they can drive the performance of their salespeople. Having the human element involved too much is going to create a breakdown, and we can't have those break downs because we need the information when we need it to ensure that we're hitting our weekly targets so that we ultimately hit our monthly quotas and our quarterly, our quarterly revenue objectives. Well, i'll tell you what you know. The the promise of the show is to deliver the inside track, the best, smartest, fastest way to get something done. And you know and you have certainly delivered on the promise of the show the inside track, on on what you call guided selling technology. I love that. I think that really makes just so much sense to me. And the idea of really paying attention to what what's going on in the field and monetizing it and turning it into actionable material. And when guests come on our show and they live up to the promise of the show, we call those people advantaged players. And you certainly are an advantaged player and you've made made that happen for us. So thank you, David so much for sharing what is you know and for helping our our listeners through a very complicated process that has that's...

...moved a lot over the last many years and will no doubt continue to move well. David. Will put your contact information other material in the show notes, and thank you for being a friend of the show and I hope we can continue to count on you. Absolutely. Thanks Joel Well, good listen. Good to have you with us. You've been listening to Profit from the Inside with Joe Block. For more insights and to learn more, visit Joel Block dot com. How about a shout out and a huge thanks to our podcast show producer David Wolf and the team at Auto Vita Studios. Profit from the inside wouldn't be possible without these wonderful professionals. To learn more or to find out how you can launch and produce your own podcast show, reach out to www dot auto vita dot com. That's a U d I v I t A dot com. Eight.

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